Did John Seagroves Lie?

Did John Seagroves lie on his Revolutionary War pension application?


Maybe.


Maybe not.

John Seagroves (Seagraves) of Surry County (and Granville County, NC before that) was closely associated with John White of Surry County.  (John White was my GGGG grandfather.)  A fellow genealogist (Hi, Jack!) and I have found ourselves researching John Seagroves to hopefully learn more about our John White.  As often happens, we have found some inconsistencies John Seagroves' story.

In 1818, John Seagroves applied for his Revolutionary War pension.  He served in the Revolutionary War for 2 years in the 6th NC Regiment out of Granville County, NC.  In his application, John stated that he was essentially destitute and had incurred debts.  John stated he was a hatter and unable to perform that work due to an unnamed infirmity.

Here is where things get a little tricky.

1814 - John Seagroves was living in Surry County, NC close to William Tucker.
1817 - John Seagroves applied for a land grant in Surry County, NC of 300 acres adjoining Ezekiel Wilmoth and William Tucker and William Smith on or near Little Fishing River.
1818 - John Seagroves applied for his Revolutionary War pension and testified he was destitute.
1819 (Feb 5) - John was awarded a military pension of $8 per month to be paid in arrears from Sep 1818.
1819  (Dec) - The land grant is issued to John Seagroves.  A note on the back indicates John Seagroves paid for the land in full.  Unfortunately, the price per acre of land is not listed on the document.

Did John have money hidden away to pay for the land?  After all, he testified a year earlier that he was destitute and unable to work.

By Dec of 1819, John would have collected about $144 from his pension. Would this have been enough to take care of his debts and pay for his land as well?

Quite possibly.   If this is the case, then John Seagroves did not lie on his pension application.  He likely started the land grant process and the pension application process in hopes of obtaining the money to purchase the land.

John Seagroves continued to live on the land until his death on 26 Jan 1833. John Seagroves left his land to John White, my GGGG grandfather.

Research Updates

I thought I would update my cousins and fellow researchers where I am in my research.  I have been a little quiet in posting my research mostly because I am involved in "community" research.  In some cases I have "lost" my ancestor's trail and am currently researching all those associated with my ancestor.  It is time consuming and tedious at times, but I really like this type of research.  I feel like I truly learn how those in a community interacted with each other.  Of course, I find a lot of collateral ancestors this way as well.  Keep reading.  Things should become clearer (I hope.).

Howard Family Line (Wake, Moore, Lee NC Counties):  This family line is solid back to James Harward of Wake County and King and Queen County, VA before that.  Since K and Q County is a burned county, no records exist from the time that James lived there as as young child in the 1760's.  I'm still hoping that records from areas of the country that the family and neighbors migrated to will surface and shed light on the earlier generations in this line. This line will likely need to join a DNA project to determine which Howard/Harward line is ours.


Haley (Halifax and Charlotte Counties, VA):  My Haley family research certainly challenges me to find new ways over, around and/or through this genealogical brick wall!  My current research takes this family line back to Jesse Haley who was born ~1803 in Virginia - likely in Halifax or Charlotte County.  Honestly,  I'm stuck when it comes to Jesse.  I have turned to researching all those with whom he associated.  Interestingly, he did not seem to associate with many other Haleys - at least not in the records.  To learn more about Jesse and hopefully his parentage, I am researching William Cardwell (Jesse's friend) and the Brackett Owen family (Jesse's in-laws and possible blood relations.)

There is another aspect to my Haley family research that I am enjoying immensely.  Sharing stories and identifying photographs with my Haley cousins gives depth to the stories of our generations past. I never even knew most of these cousins before I started my research.

Isn't that what genealogy is about?

White (Surry, Rockingham, Caswell, Granville Counties):  Ahh.....another "brick wall" family.  Let's just say that researching a man by the name of John White in North Carolina (or any other state) is not an easy task.  Now that that's been said, another White family researcher and I have made and continue to make great strides in tracing this line back.  We are confident of this line back to John White who arrived in Surry County, NC sometime in the 1810's or 1820's.  We are fairly certain John White is the son of Cagebeth [Cadbreth, Cajabeth] White Rockingham and Granville Counties, NC. Like the Haley family line, the White family line requires researching the associates, neighbors, and even in-laws to get to the next generation back.  This is a line of research I will definitely be posting more about this summer.

Graduation Season

In the midst of the graduation season, I thought it might be fun to share this...

1935 High School Diploma for Cecil Clara White
of
Dobson, NC

....my grandmother's high school diploma!

School certificates and records can provide a lot of family history information.  See my post Back To School      to learn how I have used school records to "fill in" my ancestors' lives.

Tombstone Tuesday - Old White Family Cemetery

*I was granted permission by the photographer and the webmaster of CemeteryCensus.com to post these photographs on my blog.

These are photographs of an Old White Cemetery in Surry County, NC.  The cemetery is located off Brindle Road near Dobson, NC.  It is on private property and considered abandoned According to CemeteryCensus.com, most of the stones are are field stones.  Other unmarked graves are thought to be there as well.

I do not know if this is my White family line I have been researching. (I am working with another White family researcher to untangle the Whites of Surry County, NC.) Given the area of the Surry County where this cemetery is located and its age, I would not be surprised if this is the site of some of the my earlier White generation(s). I admit, that could be wishful thinking!

If you are a White family researcher and know more about this abandoned cemetery or the Whites of Surry County, NC , please contact me. 

I Updated My Website

This post is especially for my White family cousins.  I have added my(our) White family tree on my website Lisa's Genealogy.  This is a very basic family tree, but I am trying to share our tree without overwhelming anyone.  Not too many generations back, this White family history gets confusing.  Theories abound about the origin of the family, but facts are few. I'll continue to share new discoveries here on my blog.

Guess which White family member this young man is...

I have added photographs to the photo gallery.  As I did this, I realized I do not have a lot of photographs of my great grandparents James Abe and Stella (Holyfield) White.  I would love to see photographs of them in their younger years. Does anyone have any?

Happy St Patrick's Day!

Okay, I'm not Irish.... at least not much that I know about.

I do have one Irish branch on my family tree.  Her name is Joanna Barrett and she likely immigrated to America  sometime in the 1840's.  I have written previously about Joanna and her daughter Joanna (the younger) and the genealogical challenges they present to me.  You can read these women here and here.

It's possible I (we) have more Irish heritage than I have found so far.  The Haley line may actually turn out to be of Irish origins, but I am a long ways from figuring that out.

Enjoy the day!

Research Update

I thought I would update you the reader on my recent research.  I like keeping my cousins updated and blogging about my research helps to keep me focused.

The White Family Line: I have been working with another White family researcher (descendant of Albert White of Surry County, NC) to attempt to trace our White family back. Multiple White lines and re-used given names make this research particularly difficult. We believe (though nothing is set in stone) we can trace our White line back to the Rockingham and Caswell County areas to a Cajabeth White.  There is still much research to be done to be able to support (or disprove) our theory.

The Haley Family Line: You can read about the latest developments here on my research into the 1820's tax records for Halifax County, VA.  I have identified several Haleys I believe were in some way related to Jesse Haley (my GGGG grandfather). These Haleys do not stay in Halifax County for long and fall between the census years of 1820 and 1830.  Another research trip to the Halifax County courthouse is in the making to look at land and court records.

The Howard Line: I was able to provide another researcher with photographs of someone in his Dean family tree.  My great grandfather's (Connie M Howard) 4th wife was Lucille Dean. It is always nice to help another genealogist out.

I have lots of other research projects in mind - more projects than actual research time. Thankfully, the ancestors are patient, if not always forthcoming with answers.

Wordless Wednesday My Grandmother's Scrapbook

Front page of Cecile White Howard's scrapbook. Notice the spelling of her first name.  In 1932 she had not added the "e" to the end of her name.

"Rule Breakers" In The Family?

Violet and Cecile White

I found this photograph of my grandmother Cecile White Howard (1917-1983) and her sister Violet White Hicks (1920-2005).    The sign in the middle says "DANGER  KEEP OFF". I don't know the story behind the picture, but it would appear we have a couple of daring rule breakers in the family!  I wonder of Grandmother White (Stella Holyfield White) knew.

If any White family cousins know the story behind this photograph, I would love to hear  (and share) it.

Please, No More John Whites!

My research focus recently has been on my White family line out of Surry County, NC.  Another research and I are working hard to untangle the White families.  A daunting task to say the least.

My line looks like this:

Cecile White (my grandmother)  (1917-1983)

 James Abe White     (1891-1967)

 Thomas Jefferson White   (1851-1922)

 Joseph White    (Abt 1802-Abt 1881)

John White      (b. Abt 1770)
                                                         

These relationships are well established.  It's with Joseph's father John White where the research starts getting difficult.  There are John Whites in multiple NC counties and VA.  In the NC Will Index there are 34 John Whites listed scattered throughout NC.  Not one of them is the right one!

"My" John White and his sons came to Surry County likely in the late 1820's.  But where did they come from?   With which White family do they connect?  Many (unsourced) online trees have the family coming from Warren County, NC or possibly Granville County.  This is a very real possibility and one I'm checking out.

The search continues......

Dobson High School Basketball Team
1932-1933

This is a photograph from my grandmother's photo album.  She (Cecile White) played on the girls' team in high school.  Unfortunately she did not include a picture of the girls' team in her album.

Surnames of the boys' team players include Collins, Long, Melton and White, Folger, Sims, Monday, Cockerham, and Phillips.

While none of these young men are directly related to me, I suspect a couple may be cousins on collateral lines.  I wanted to share this photograph in case there are other Surry County, NC researchers who might researching these surnames.  I just might have other photographs of your ancestor.  One never knows where a photograph of an ancestor might turn up.

Wordless Wednesday - Stella White

Stella (Holyfield) White

of 

Dobson, Surry, North Carolina

My Ancestors' Signatures

I have recently begun intensely researching my White family line of Surry County, NC.  I am working with another White family researcher and we are making some great discoveries.  (I'll share more about the that in future posts.)

One of the fun things I found this week is the signature of my GGGG grandfather John White as he wrote it in Feb 1833.  A White is Albert White, the son of John.  These signatures are at the bottom of a bond naming John White as executor of his uncle John Seagrove's estate.

The last signature is that of Pleasant Venable.  I'm not sure yet where he fits into things.

There is much work to be done to be done on this White family line.  There are MANY White families out there and MANY men named John White.  All are not our ancestors.

If you are a White family researcher with Surry County connections, I'd like to hear from you.

Wordless Wednesday - Comer Cousins

Tommie Sprinkle, Mary Comer, Webster Comer
Cecil White

Wordless Wednesday (with an explanation!)  This is a photograph from the teenage scrapbook of Cecile White Howard.  She's the tall girl in the back.  Mary and Webster Comer would have been her cousins, but I'm not so sure about Tommie Sprinkle.  I haven't found any other Sprinkles in the White family line.

I do have a number of photographs of my grandmother's friends and cousins taken in Surry County, NC.  If you are researching families in this area, let me know.  You never know.  I might have a photograph of your ancestor!

Wordless Wednesday - Stella and James Abe White

Stella (Holyfield) and James Abe White
of Surry County, NC
1963 - 50th Wedding Anniversary
My Great Grandparents

Happy Labor Day!

Last Labor Day I wrote a post about my ancestors' occupations.  So as this year's Labor Day holiday rolled around, I again thought about their occupations.  From last year's post, it was obvious I come from farming ancestors. (That is one gene that did not get passed down.)

What new occupations did I find for my ancestors' in the past year?

Carpenter - Alexander Humphries

Overseer of the Poor - Jesse Haley (in his later life)

Plantation Overseer - William Haley

Census Taker - Columbus Holyfield

General Store Owner - Stella Holyfield White

Horse Thief - Pelham Humphries
             Okay, that's not proven, but it sure makes for fun oral history!

How about your ancestors' occupations?

This Is The Post In Which I Ask For Help

I have begun researching my great-great grandmother Joanna White, wife of Thomas Jefferson White. They lived in Surry county, NC. I grew up hearing about Joanna, our"Irish grandmother". Oral history is vague and included the surnames Lyons and Barrett.  Oral history also tells that Joanna was a widow when she came to America.

 I am intrigued by Joanna.  I have not done immigrant research and am looking forward to learning more about my great great grandmother and this area of research.  My long range goal is to trace Joanna's family back into Ireland.

Joanna Lyons White

b. 25 July 1852

m. 20 Sep 1874

d. 6 Jun 1910

While I held the oral history in the back of my mind, I searched the records for clues to exactly who Joanna was and exactly where did she come from.  Would facts found in the records support the family's oral history?

I started with the traditional records including the census records,  the marriage records and death records.  Right away, what I found caught me off guard.  Joanna (sometimes spelled Jonah) was not born in Ireland.  Census records give three locations for her place of birth: NC, VA, and D.C.  Following Joanna back  through the census records, finds her in the home of William Richard Wilmoth and Joanna Wilmoth in 1860 and 1870.  Joanna Wilmoth (the elder) was born in Ireland.  Later census records show both of Joanna's (the younger) parents were born in Ireland.  WR Wilmoth was born in NC. Because Joanna (the younger) was living in the home of WR Wilmoth, many researchers assumed that she was his daughter.

Here's where the story gets even more interesting.....

I came across the marriage registration for Joanna (the younger) and Thomas J. White in Surry County, NC in 1874.  Immediately, the first thing I noticed was Joanna's name.  She is listed in the marriage registration as Joanna Lyons.  Next, Thomas's parents are correctly listed in the record as Joseph and Temperance White.  Joanna's mother is listed as Joanna Wilmoth.  Joanna's father is listed as Unknown.  WR Wilmoth was still very much alive in 1874 and still married to Joanna's mother, the elder Joanna. It would appear that Joanna may well have been William Richard's step-daughter.  (There are records where the younger Joanna appears as Joanna Wilmoth. Using death records and census records I have been able to confirm that Joanna Lyons and Joanna Wilmoth (the younger) are the same woman.)

And this is the point where I get "stuck".  Where do I go from here?

• Was Lyons Joanna's birth name or was she married prior to Thomas White as some researcher think?  I have not found evidence of a prior marriage in the records.
• The elder Joanna appears to be the immigrating ancestor from Ireland.  I am not sure of her surname before her marriage to WR Wilmoth, though oral history tells of a young widow named Joanna Barrett crossing the Atlantic. She would have come to America before her daughter's birth in Jul 1852. 
• Because one of the possible birth places for the younger Joanna is D.C.,  what type of records might I find pertaining to Irish immigrants in that area. in the early 1850's?  

So....if you are  a cousin or Surry County researcher who knows more of the story, I would really like to hear from you.  If you are a fellow researcher, I'm open to your suggestions.

A Special Photograph

This is a photograph I found in Cecile White's scrapbook.  I had never seen it, and was thrilled to have and to share it.  This is my great grandmother Stella Holyfield White holding her daughter Violet White on her lap.  To the left is my grandmother Cecile and to the right is her brother Jasper.  I see the faces of my cousins in this photograph.

One of the special things about this photograph is seeing Jasper.  Thomas "Jasper" White was the oldest child of Stella and James Abe White to live to adulthood. Unfortunately, he died in an automobile accident at the age of 19 in 1935.  This is only the second photograph I have discovered of him and I am happy to share it with my cousins.

Sometimes There Is No Figuring It Out

I have recently been reading my grandmother Cecile White Howard's scrapbook that she started in 1932.  I found this photograph of the electric chair in the Dobson, NC jail pasted in among the postcards and candy wrappers she saved.  The question here is "Why?".  Why would my grandmother put this particular photo in her scrapbook?  To my knowledge, no ancestor ever sat in this chair. (I know you were thinking that!)

White family cousins,  do you know why this photograph is in Cecile's scrapbook?

Impressions

Do you ever get specific impressions of  what your ancestors were like as people?  What their personalities were like?  Were they generally happy people?  Were they honorable? Were sorrow and pain a constant companion?

I get a lot of my impressions about my ancestors from the photographs they left behind.  I think we all do.  I expect that's the reason for the saying  "a picture speaks a thousand words".

That's a picture of my great grandmother Esther Richardson (left), her mother Hattie Elliott Richardson (center) and Esther's best friend Nannie Lee Farson (right).  As in this photo, Esther is almost always smiling in her photographs.  I believe she was generally a very happy person.

This is a portrait of my great-great grandmother Joanna White, wife of Thomas Jefferson White. This is the only photograph I have seen of Joanna and I know little of her life other than the basics. (Don't worry White family cousins, Joanna is high on my list of upcoming research projects.) She looks so stern and has a worried look in her eyes.  Is this how she saw life in general?  Was worry a constant companion?  Perhaps or perhaps not.  She could have been up with a sick child the night before her portrait was taken.

This is a photograph of Martha Jane (Lett) Maddox obviously taken in her later years.  She was only in her mid-60's when this photograph was taken.  My initial impression of her in this photograph is that she was a stern, no nonsense type of woman who lived a hard life.  That may be true to a degree.  She certainly knew the sorrow of losing a spouse and children during her lifetime.  But this is a case where my impression of her just from the photograph is likely not an accurate portrayal.  From her grandson's journal I learned Martha Jane was a woman who taught a young boy how to fish.  Fishing became a life long hobby for my grandfather. From an interview an elderly cousin, I learned how much Martha Jane loved her grandchildren.  It was only her poor health that prevented her from taking in her daughter Mattie's young children when Mattie died.

Here you have a few of my thoughts for a Thursday morning.  I'm off to try to see how the facts support (or not) my impressions of other ancestors.